The old one found in Colorado;
Clemson University aired on May 30, 2006
ETTHIS is a rush transcript at 20:00:00.
This copy may not be in final form and may be updated.
Host Nancy Grace: there was a burst of news in the studio tonight and all the way to the fourth day people were nervously looking for an 8-year-
The old boy who disappeared in the Colorado mountains, in the hot sun, over 7,000 feet above sea level, 8-year-
Evan Thompson, no food, no water, just a few minutes before we aired, Evan lives to report.
Tonight, breaking news, live South Carolina. year-
Old Clemson University
Ed was brutally strangled. Murder weapon?
When the girl was found dead in her apartment, she still had a bikini around her neck. (
Start Video Editing)
Unidentified male: I will not define anyone they have as a suspect, but they will definitely say the person they are looking for who is interested in. (END VIDEO CLIP)
Good evening everyone.
I\'m Nancy Grace.
I want to thank you for being with us tonight.
Tonight, the mysterious murder of Clemson University in South CarolinaA straight-
Student in civil engineering, 20-year-
When the old Tiffany Marie Sur was found, there was a bikini top on the neck and was strangled to death with unknown motives and suspicious.
But first of all tonight, hiking, horseback riding, all the search teams-
Combined search for terrain vehicles and helicopters 8-year-
A young boy missing in a camp in the Colorado mountains.
Is there a small footprint on the boy\'s spider?
Before we broadcast, the men\'s shoes will make him recover safely?
Tonight, we will take your call, your question, and most importantly, your suggestion. (
Start Video Editing)
Unidentified Woman: I have to be strong in order to keep my son strong.
I hope they will find him as soon as possible as I don\'t want him to stay out for the night again!
They always tell me, you know, oh, he\'s a kid with special needs.
Then you should observe him better.
You think you can do better than me, then you should always look at my son because he is my only son! (END VIDEO CLIP)
Grace: Let\'s go straight to Richard Randall, the reporter for KVOR.
Richard, tell me what the boy found.
How did he get lost in the Colorado mountains?
Richard Randall of KVOR
TV: Nancy, it\'s easy to get lost in the Colorado mountains.
Even if you are in the camp, if you walk away in many places here, you will not go too far in the wilderness.
You have to face the elements and possibilities of predators like mountain lions, bears and coyotes. This 8-year-
Three nights, four days, no food, no water, only the clothes he wore when he left the camp.
But just before your program started, the word appeared and he was discovered.
\"Alive and healthy\" is the key word, \"alive and healthy \".
\"They will bring him down the mountain.
As for what caused him, we are still waiting.
Today, the boy\'s family took a search car.
They shouted at the boy with a megaphone.
Of course, in the early days of the search, they found the footprints of him and the spider --
His men\'s shoes.
It\'s really worth putting on unique shoes for your little boy GRACE: Well, Richard--
Richard Randall is with us. -
I was hiking in the Colorado mountains, including the Rocky Mountains.
I don\'t understand when you\'re with a group, when people take care of an 8-year-
Old boy, how can the child escape.
I heard some conflicting reports that the child started running, and I thought, what, ran to the sunset.
Then I heard a report and someone turned their heads and they came back and the child disappeared.
Now, how do a child get lost when they are with a group, including adults?
Randall: That\'s the problem.
We are still trying to figure out how the boy got lost.
But we already have a lot of cases, two of which came to mind right away, and a few years ago a boy was finally killed by a mountain lion in northern Denver.
He was hiking with some people and some were in a church group and he got lost and finally found and killed.
About five years ago, a boy with autism, a 5-year-
Old boy in the backyard.
Mom went in for only a few minutes and he was gone.
I think this is a prudent lesson for all of us, whether they are 3, 5 or 8 years old, and in particular some of them may have a concentration disorder or autism, things like that.
You can\'t go back at all when you\'re in the wild: Richard, who\'s with this boy?
Randall: We\'re still trying to find out, Nancy.
There are conflicting reports about whether it is a foster mother or a family member, or whether it is a teacher or a combination of these people.
We got conflicting reports from some of the search guys and some of the sheriff\'s in Colorado.
Grace: Speaking of mom, she quickly joined us in Evan\'s mother, Mary Thompson, for the first national live interview. Ms.
Thanks for being with us, Thompson.
Mary Thompson, Evans\'s mother: Thank you so much for inviting me.
Who was Evan with on a camping trip?
Thompson: as far as I know, he is with a teacher and some other students.
Do we know how many adults are with students?
No, I don\'t know.
Grace: When was the last time you spoke to Evan?
Thompson: When I visited him last Wednesday.
Who does he live with now?
Thompson: he\'s with my brother and his wife.
Is he excited about the camping trip?
Thompson: I didn\'t hear anything until my mom brought it up to me.
He lives with his adoptive parents, right?
Thompson: Yes, madam.
He\'s eight, right?
Thompson: Yes, madam.
Do you think he might be with the teacher?
You don\'t know yet?
Thompson: I don\'t know.
I was not told what he was going to camp.
When did the police tell you he was missing?
The police never told me.
The social worker called my mother and she let me know.
Grace: listen to what the foster mother said. (
Start Video Editing)
Unidentified woman: he was a little too enthusiastic, a little excited, just walked away.
He just doesn\'t have the skill.
He had already gone out alone one night.
He hasn\'t eaten for 24 hours.
He did not take medicine. (END VIDEO CLIP)
Grace: of course, what made us find this little boy? -
Big news, the headline tonight is this 8-year-
The old boy was found, already on this 8-year-
Because of his unique spider. Man shoes.
Just before we got on the plane, we learned that they had been tracking the footprints on his shoes.
Now, for Alan Ripka, remember to be O. J.
Simpson was allowed to demonstrate in court without practicing first?
Alan Lipka, do you remember?
Defense lawyer Alan Ripka: Of course I do.
That terrible, terrible moment.
Well, this will be a demo that you will see in court.
Of course, we must be responsive and responsive.
These are spiders. Man shoes.
Let\'s make a summary. up of this.
As you can see, SpiderMan --
Can we get close?
Up, Dusty (ph)? Dusty --there you go. Spider-
People with spiders
This is a picture of a man.
As a demonstration, that is how it operates in court. OK.
This is how the boy was found.
It left a very unique mark.
This is my understanding. -
To Richard Randall. -
The spider found very fresh fingerprints.
Men\'s tennis shoes, right?
Randall: That\'s right.
We know, at least on Sunday, maybe yesterday, these fingerprints were found.
We don\'t know if these fingerprints were found today or if they caused the boy\'s death or if there was any visual contact in the air. . . GRACE: Yes. RANDALL: . . .
Or, as we said, some family members are calling out to the boy as well.
But in terms of where they will put the center of this search, a key element in the early days is that they know in particular that these footprints are related to missing young people.
Let\'s go to little Tom Brown. (ph)
He got calls from a lot of the missing people in Colorado.
What are they looking for, Tom? TOM BROWN, JR.
Wilderness expert: You know what\'s interesting, I\'m just listening to the interview with the boy who was taken away by a mountain lion ---
In fact, we were on that case in about two weeks.
We found the place where the mountain lion brought the child.
Okay, go back to this case.
Little Tom Brown is with us.
This case, Tom.
Or what is the suggestion when the children are taken to the mountain during the hiking?
How did this child go?
That\'s the problem, you know.
If you have an adult in charge of a child, the adult knows very well where the child is.
But if they are scattered over a few adults, they think that everyone else is looking at them, they will relax their vigilance.
This is what happened.
He wanders off.
Grace: back to Richard Randall.
Tell us how they found the boy.
Do you think the helicopter saw it?
Randall: I really can\'t guess at this point.
I know they did thermal imaging overnight.
They had a helicopter coming in and, of course, the warmth of the body would appear contrary to the background.
Many searchers will tell you that one of the problems you face is that sometimes stones or cliffs keep heat.
It makes it a little difficult.
The other night, when they used the helicopter there, they didn\'t take any pictures.
They also have a plane and two helicopters in the area.
About 90 people searched the ground.
We\'re still waiting for the details of how they can find the boy, but their best clues may be those footprints.
To Mary Thompson.
This is Evan\'s mother.
When did you find out?
Thompson: I was in the studio. Naomi (ph)
She called me from CNN.
Naomi from headline news, our Naomi. THOMPSON: Yes.
So you heard from our show that your son was found?
Thompson: Yes, madam.
GRACE: How close are you to foster parents?
Well, he\'s my big brother. that\'s his wife.
There are many things that can alleviate the pain, but we are still a family.
We\'re still communicating.
GRACE: to a therapistLeslie Austin (ph).
Evan Jr. was diagnosed with ADHD. What is that?
Mental therapist Leslie Austin: pay attention to defective ADHD.
This makes it difficult for him to focus on things.
He may be over-active and speaks a lot and cannot keep his attention straight.
He may be taking the medicine, it will be a problem, he did not take the medicine.
GRACE: to investigative journalist Leslie Snadowsky
Leslie, can you tell us what he found?
How does it happen?
Investigation reporter Leslie snadowski: Well, you know, this boy ---
First of all, that\'s good news, isn\'t it?
He has overcome many difficulties.
I mean, he went missing at 10: 00 a. m. on Saturday.
It\'s been four days.
He did not eat.
He\'s been dealing with some tough issues.
I mean, the weather is OK, but the terrain is very rough in terms of the terrain.
There are actually 150 feet high cliffs, many trees.
Your local reporter also mentioned wildlife.
It is speculated that at that time in the country, the bear had just emerged from its dormant state. I mean, it`s (INAUDIBLE)
Grace: You know, it\'s great for me ---
Do we know any situation surrounding his discovery, who found him, how they found him, where he was, how he escaped?
SNADOWSKY: as far as I know, just--the --
Regarding where he was found, how he was found, and everything, I don\'t think this has been released yet.
But I know he left at 10: 00 on Saturday.
He is having breakfast with his classmates.
That\'s it. He vanished.
They found some footprints on Sunday.
They found some footprints on Monday.
I believe there are more than 70 searchers out on Monday looking for him.
So it was great that he was found.
GRACE: that\'s what the search and rescue team is saying. (
Start Video Editing)
Unidentified male: The track is not continuous.
They will show up, you know, and then they will disappear and they will have to look for them again.
They will find that the track will move in another direction.
His thought process may be now, oh, I got lost, I don\'t know where I am, and now someone is chasing me and doesn\'t realize that we are here to help. (END VIDEO CLIP)
Grace: We were waiting for a reporter in Colorado to find out exactly how Evan was found.
Before we take you to the University of Clemson, go back to Leslie stosky.
Why do they believe that Evan is still alive?
SNADOWSKY: Well, again, the temperature is OK.
I think it\'s between 60 and 70 years old during the day and at night. The --
There was no rain.
Again, the terrain is rough, but they say that the boy is as big as him, two, three, four days away, and he may be fine.
There are many caves in this area.
They were actually looking for shelter in the cave where he might have found it.
They are all optimistic, which is very interesting for this particular search.
They were all optimistic that the little boy would be found.
However, the footprints were found three miles from the camp.
So the boy went very far.
Back to Mary Thompson.
This is Evan\'s mother.
Tell us about him.
Will he even know how to take care of himself in this case? THOMPSON: No.
This is his first time camping in the mountains.
The grace of God and the protection of God is how he created it.
Mary, do you know how many children are left?
Thompson: No, I don\'t know.
So you know nothing about the whole incident.
Thompson: No, ma\'am, I don\'t.
Finally, there\'s good news tonight.
We are reporting. year-
Old Evan Thompson was found when we went into the air.
We are waiting for reporters about how he was discovered.
How did he escape?
Once it happens, we will bring it to you as soon as possible.
It will soon be tonight\'s \"case Alert \".
The first anniversary of the disappearance of Natalie Holloway, a missing teenager in Alabama, throughout the time Aruba authorities were playing hide-and-seekand-
Released, detained 10 people, then released them, not far from finding out where Natalee was, and Natalee was last seen leaving without a trace with three locals, including the judge\'s son. (
Start Video Editing)
Women of unknown identity:. .
Junior in engineering
Tiffany\'s mother described her as a typical successful person who volunteered to take part in charity activities and always helped others, and her mother thought that even if her daughter would not do so, the title would
Woman: I\'m sure she\'s calm and happy. (INAUDIBLE)
She has to do more work there. (END VIDEO CLIP)
We are investigating the case of the missing girl at Clemson University.
Samantha Epps, independent post Anderson, is joining us now.
\"Samantha, thank you for being with us.
Please keep us updated.
Samantha, are you there?
Let\'s go and meet Ed Miller with \"what America wants most.
\"Ed, tell us about this girl.
Ed Miller, \"What Americans want most\": Nancy, as you mentioned, an ultra-high achievement, is not just a straight
A college student, but a straight
College students majoring in engineering, one of the most difficult courses around.
Not only that, she is also a fledgling person, loved by everyone on campus.
She gave her time.
She is very active in charity.
All in all, according to her family and friends, no one of them ever wanted to hurt her.
She has no known enemy, and, again, she has been loved by so many people, and looks like an ultra-high achievement, not care in the world.
GRACE: We\'re going to take Clemson University to 20-year-
Found dead in his apartment.
Back to Ed Miller.
Ed, what was her death?
Miller: What happened to her death-
Again, without prejudice to the investigation in any way, we know that she was strangled by a bikini top, at least according to the coroner.
That\'s what they said.
The most important thing, they said, was not forcing her to leave.
Now, it doesn\'t necessarily mean she knows the killer until someone is disappointed.
This does mean no forced entry.
I know you talked to me before.
Elizabeth Smart, the two names were not forced.
The Elizabeth Smart case was not forcibly entered either, but someone came in and took her away from home.
So I mean, it\'s important to analyze it very carefully.
Let\'s take a look at these facts.
Listen to this. (
Start Video Editing)
It is very important to be safe and calm.
Speculation is one of the reasons why suspects have more information than they need.
At this point, we don\'t want them to know anything we know until we can run out of all possible lead.
I won\'t define any of them as suspects, but they will definitely say that we are looking for people of interest.
The investigation itself continued late into the night and early in the morning.
By that time,-
He had a relationship with me and then the body was removed for the purposes of the autopsy, which was Saturday morning.
Forensic pathologists performed an autopsy in Greenville on Saturday morning.
Therefore, I do not think that there was any delay or interruption of any evidence other than the very lengthy treatment of the site prior to the removal of the body. (END VIDEO CLIP)
Grace: We\'re talking about the body of a young girl found in an apartment near Clemson University.
Let\'s try Samantha Epps again with \"Anderson Independent Mail.
\"Samantha, are you with us?
Samantha Epps from the independent post Anderson: Yes. Hello. How are you?
Thank you for being with us.
Do what you can to keep us up to date.
Well, I think you\'re listening to some of the videos from today\'s press conference.
Basically, this (INAUDIBLE)
Just tell everyone. . .
Grace: Yes, yes. We heard that. EPPS: Right.
Grace: I want to know--you know what?
I will ask you some sharp questions. EPPS: Sure.
Does she live alone?
Epps: we know her roommate just got home this summer, so. . . GRACE: So yes.
Epps: she is at this time. GRACE: OK.
As far as we know, is there a forced entry?
Epps: No, no evidence. . . GRACE: OK. EPPS: . . . a forced entry.
Samantha, is there anything stolen?
We don\'t understand.
Does he live on the first floor, on the ground floor or on the higher floor?
I believe she lives in the Terrace apartment.
When I visited the complex, it said her apartment was a terrace apartment.
Now, Terrace apartment--
Will it be at the bottom?
I believe it is at the top.
The last question.
Do we know if her window was open or closed at the time of the incident?
No, we don\'t know.
Samantha, who is she dating?
As far as we know, she didn\'t date anyone or have a boyfriend.
Grace: Samantha, why is she there during the summer vacation?
EPPS: She registered at the summer school and also volunteered at a local charity.
You know, everything I hear about her, she\'s a girl.
She is taking a summer class in order to graduate early.
She intends to complete her degree in civil engineering in four years, not the traditional five years. . . EPPS: Right. GRACE: . . .
A lot of time has been donated to charities and charities.
Samantha, how did she find her body? EPPS: (INAUDIBLE)
Found her on the floor of her bedroom--
She has a bikini top around her neck.
Did she wear anything else?
We heard reports today that she only wears underwear.
Grace: Are there any signs of struggle?
The authorities did not say at this point.
Grace: Samantha Epps of the Anderson Independent post is with us.
\"Samantha, I have read in many reports that this is a very safe area.
In fact, they rarely even lock the door. EPPS: Right.
This is a very safe community.
Some of the students I spoke to the other day said they didn\'t always lock the door because they felt safe. (
Start Video Editing)
Unidentified male: At this point we are trying to create a timeline to try to backtrack her steps. (END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight, we will accept you about 20-year-
Old Clemson University was found dead in his apartment.
Let\'s go to the vice president of student affairs at Clemson University.
Gail DiSabatino is with us. Welcome, Gail.
This must be the fear in everyone\'s heart, the discovery of Tiffany\'s murder.
Gail DISABATINO, vice president of student affairs at Clemson University.
It causes fear.
It hit the sadness.
People were shocked.
Gail, is this apartment building popular?
How close is it to campus?
Did the police monitor it?
DISABATINO: Well, it\'s off. campus.
Actually in another town.
We are in Clemson, the apartment building is in the city center (ph).
But it is very small and only a few miles away from the campus.
Their jurisdiction is the central police.
You know, you need--
Or, like other police departments, they go round. (
Tiffany sur\'s mother thought of her when she spoke to her daughter.
We were close.
We talk every day.
Unidentified woman: when Tiffany was in class at Clemson, a few miles from her home in St. , the daily chat kept them in touchLouis.
Brenda sur said she spoke to Tiffany last Thursday and didn\'t know they had the last conversation.
Bren souers, the mother of the murdered woman: it\'s hard to find out why.
You want to apply logic, but that\'s not the case.
Unidentified woman: Clemson Police said Tiffany was strangled the next day at her apartment building in Central.
A friend found her body in the living room.
Unidentified male: great girl, talented, very smart, very beautiful, very good person, very interesting.
It was very shocking to everyone. (END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: we are taking your question, your phone number and your tips on the deaths of these 20 peopleyear-
Old girl, Tiffany Sur.
Invited guest, peken County coroner, forensic doctor in many places, join us nowJames Mahanes.
Thank you for being with us, sir.
James Mahans, the Pickens County Coroner: You\'re welcome.
Grace: as far as I know, she was strangled.
Is it tied or handmade?
MAHANES: Oh no, this is strangled with a dress that is defined as the top of the bikini.
Dr. Pickens County coroner, everyone with usJames Mahanes --
How do we know it was the dress that was tied up?
Ladies and gentlemen, the difference between manual and binding.
Tie with other methods such as rope, wire or thin rope bikini.
Well, that\'s right.
I mean, checking the band around your neck will tell you that.
This is a dress that is tightly woven and tightly tied, and you know, it has to be put there by some hand.
This is not strangled by hand.
Doctor, is the bikini top still tied to show to some extent that it\'s actually a murder weapon?
Of course, according to the features of the autopsy, it is separated in a standard manner for later identification of evidence.
County coroner with us. James Mahanes.
When he said that when the body was taken to the morgue or the coroner, the forensic office, the item was separated, the photo was a photo of the crime scene, including the body, and then, the item was usually handed in separately, this will not change anything on the body.
Doctor, it seems very important to me that, as a trial lawyer, is there any sign of her counterattack?
MAHANES: Well, there are no obvious signs--
You know, there\'s a fight for that.
No specific defensive wounds were found.
Grace: doctor, when she got to the morgue, was her hand caught?
MAHANES: You know, her hands are under control because a broader forensic examination is to be conducted.
GRACE: Everyone, when we ask the hand is bagged, usually the hand of the murder victim is bagged in a paper bag, in my old jurisdiction, for a specific reason, it is then fixed here, usually with rubber bands, in case there is DNA or fiber under the nail.
GRACE: Now, doctor, can you explain to us whether the hands are bagged in paper bags or plastic bags within your jurisdiction?
Well, in the jurisdiction under my control, they are bagged in paper bags.
In this particular case, law enforcement in South Carolina took control of this because she was a college student and Clemson University was a state university so they took control of this
My knowledge at this point is that when these hands are sent to the forensic pathologist\'s office for autopsy, they are put into paper bags.
Grace: I\'m sorry, doctor. we just lost you briefly.
Do you say that paper or plastic is used within your jurisdiction?
We use paper.
Can you explain why?
GRACE: Can you explain to the audience why paper is more popular than plastic?
MAHANES: Well, because, if you wrap something in plastic, the moisture will gather and so on depending on the temperature and stuff like that, it will dissolve or dilute anything that might exist.
Grace: Dr. Pickens County coroner, we are a very special guest. James Mahanes.
Doctor, I know the rape tool. -
Let me rephrase the complete autopsy. -
Before you get a study on whether the young lady was raped, the full autopsy report is incomplete.
How long does this take?
MAHANES: of course, we will wait for the toxicology to come back and we use a certified laboratory in Indiana.
It usually takes 10 to 14 days.
I\'m not sure how long South Carolina Law Enforcement has been able to get results out of this rape kit, but I suspect it will be a higher outcome as we say
I think it\'s earlier than the others they manage and I expect they will try to return it to us in a few weeks.
Doctor, have you seen the crime scene photos?
MAHANES: this is not done by law enforcement.
We have our own photos, the ones we took when we arrived at the scene.
Ah, then you send your own investigator, right?
MAHANES: Well, my deputy or myself will be summoned to the scene when there is a death.
MAHANES: we conducted a preliminary investigation and conducted on-site drills with law enforcement.
We take pictures and things like that.
Then, in this case, we either use our local forensic personnel, but the jurisdiction of this particular forensic person comes from law enforcement in South Carolina.
Grace: Dr. Pickens County coroner, with us.
James Mahanes is with us.
A few questions you can recall.
I also know that you must have read an investigation report about the crime scene.
I know it was found on the floor.
Is she face up or face down?
MAHANES: Apart from turning around, she is facing up front-
Her head and upper body turned slightly to the left.
Grace: So it seems to me that she was not in any position?
Can you repeat it, please?
Do not pose.
In other words. . .
MAHANES: No, no, no.
GRACE: it doesn\'t sound like she was dragged into the bedroom after she was killed elsewhere, or she would lie flat.
I agree, yes, madam.
Grace: Doctor, do you know what I\'m interested in? -
I\'m trying to figure out the consistency of events-
Why is she wearing a bikini?
Did she go in underwear. . .
The fact is that she did not wear a bikini.
This happens to be the selected item. . .
Grace: it\'s tied. MAHANES: Yes. I mean. . .
I know. I knew it. I knew it.
MAHANES: it could be anything near it.
Grace: You know, I was stumped on that, doctor.
Because I suddenly thought of this girl--
I don\'t know if you have heard of her, but she studied 24/7, 365.
Compared to five traditional degrees, she completed her degree in civil engineering in four years and did 500 hours of charity work a year.
I just didn\'t see her hanging out in the pool. And it`s May.
It\'s not time yet.
I was wondering if the person was drilling out of her drawer, grabbing a bikini top to kill her, or if she was wearing a bikini.
Mahanis: Well, she didn\'t wear it at the time.
The weather in South Carolina is very hot, so the swimming pool is open and people are swimming.
But it has nothing to do with what I can do.
GRACE: do we have any indication that she\'s just taken a shower or something?
No, there is no indication of this. GRACE: OK.
Doctor, please don\'t leave. With us, Dr.
Peken County Coroner James Mahanes
Liz, let\'s go in line.
Let\'s go to Shana, New Mexico. Hi, Shauna.
Hi Nancy, how are you?
Caller: It\'s good to finally reach you.
Grace: Thank you.
I\'m glad we have some good news about the eight tonight. year-
The old man was found, and then we opened a dime and went to listen to this about 20-year-
Old girl, her whole world is in front of her.
I mean, the girl works like a dog trying to achieve some goals.
What is your question dear?
Caller: I know.
This is such a sad story.
My question is: if he strangled her with this bikini top, it would take a few minutes, a few minutes.
If he doesn\'t wear gloves, can they extract DNA from his sweat?
Is her underwear in the right place as well, or shouldn\'t it be on her?
Good question. Dr.
Mahanes, is there any on her underwear?
Yes, let me answer this question in two parts. I think --
You know, it\'s speculative to say why he didn\'t choose the project.
Yes, you know, it is possible that the DNA extracted from the palm or moisture and other things could be defined in this dress, but I think it would be very difficult.
The young lady did not wear underwear.
Can you hear me? (NEWSBREAK)(
Start Video Editing)
Unidentified male: It\'s a tragedy, you know, it\'s an aspiring young girl
All American kids who play
Of course, it does pull your heartstrings and worry you ---
If this could happen to that person, who else would it happen? (END VIDEO CLIP)
We will answer your call, your questions and suggestions. -
Especially your advice. -
About the death of Tiffany Souers, a 20-year-
A junior at Clemson University, straight, a sharp, beautiful boot like a big nail. To Dr.
Psychotherapist Leslie Austin, I learned very early in the methods and assessments of prosecuting suicide and homicide, or trying to learn very early.
The motive for killing people is a unique world in itself.
You can make psychological and mental inferences based on death patterns and manual or bundling. Explain.
Yes, you can.
Killing is a particularly personal way of killing people.
It\'s much farther to shoot someone.
So individuals have real interaction with strangers.
Using an object, you really want to make sure that person is going to die.
I bet it\'s a passionate crime by someone who knows her, spontaneous, not necessarily planned.
I guess so.
And very interesting.
You said you thought it was a crime of passion. AUSTIN: Yes.
But the young girl is not in love.
Soon, they will talk to someone who is interested after the next one, and they are all excluded.
The field is getting wider and wider. what do you mean?
Austin: No, I\'m not talking about emotional crime.
I mean, it\'s a spontaneous event no matter who did it in the heat of the moment.
The moment of passion is an exciting energy.
I don\'t mean to have a relationship with someone.
GRACE: So, as a psychologist, do you think the victim knows or doesn\'t know the perpetrator?
Austin: I think the victims know the perpetrators.
For defense lawyer Rahul Manchanda, Rahul, I have argued with the jury many, many times and we all covet what we see.
In other words, in most cases, the perpetrators of the killings are aware of the victims.
Maybe a boy from a grocery store.
Maybe they think they know her.
It\'s probably a newspaper.
Maybe someone in the school.
But we\'re here as trial lawyers, Rahul.
Give me your best chance.
Defense lawyer rahul manchanda: Well, it\'s really weird.
Looks like someone she knows.
But, you know, there\'s no sign of forced entry.
Someone she obviously knows.
But the question is: how strange it is to kill people. It`s very odd.
I have never seen it before.
You mean kill?
I have seen it countless times.
What\'s weird about this?
MANCHANDA: Well, it\'s really very strange.
You mean in a bikini?
Yes, it\'s really strange.
OK, I agree with you. To Dr.
Forensic pathologist Daniel Spitz, I know you \'ve dealt with a lot of strange cases, but for our audience ---
This is one of the hardest times to explain this in a jury trial. -
What did a victim like Tiffany go through when he died, especially during the stranglehold?
Forensic pathologist Daniel Spitz: Well, it may take some time for the whole kill process.
In fact, it takes at least 5 minutes, 4 to 5 minutes of continuous neck compression to cause death.
This is, of course, a struggle to take place.
The victim will struggle for her life, so it may take longer depending on how long it will take for the attacker to fully control the victim.
But once the control is reached, it will take at least 4 to 5 minutes for sustained neck compression.
GRACE: It\'s a very, very painful process for a victim who was strangled.
It\'s not an instant, it\'s like a shooting death.
Impact in a car accident or crash
Your eyeballs. -the peticaea (ph)
The tiny blood vessels in your eyes actually explode due to the pressure in your eyes.
The blood in your head-
Have you ever taken your hand or finger and the blood is caught there and started to beat?
Imagine what this girl is going through on your neck.
Also, I want to be with Dr soon. Leslie Austin.
As far as we know, this is not the person she knows.
This bikini top may have been taken out of the drawer and someone drilled it out of her drawer.
Austin: it could have been, but I think this strangeness is very personal.
I would be very surprised if it was a complete stranger.
I\'m sure they just grabbed something handy.
We also know that we don\'t know if this person is taking drugs or not, we don\'t know anything about any motives here, but the people she knows.
Let\'s go find Linda in Virginia. Hi, Linda. CALLER: Hi!
What is your question dear?
Okay, I like your show.
Grace: Thank you.
I think the man found the body.
Are you interested?
No, it was a former roommate, a girl.
Because we\'re interested in your theory, Linda.
A former female roommate.
As far as I know, Tiffany decided to go to summer school.
The roommate is returning the key.
For our producer, Eric Marrapodi, why is the computer important in this case?
Eric marrapodi, producer of nancy grace: You know, kids in college have been on computers all the time.
We can see a list of friends.
We can check the email. mail she sent.
Who is she talking?
Who does she know?
We know that in this case, the police are following this issue widely.
Are you sure?
We are positive.
Grace: thanks to computer expert, Steven Rogers, former FBI joint terrorism task force member, for being with us.
It is a pleasure to have you.
How do police get into the computer and what can they find?
Steven Rogers, a computer expert: Well, they\'re going to be looking for an electronic footprint.
Now, these are transfers to and from her computer until she is the victim of this brutal crime.
As your previous guests said, they will focus on e-commercemails.
They will focus on instant messaging.
They will pay attention to the website.
These things may bring these footprints back to the person who killed her.
Steven, are you saying they can capture instant messaging?
Some ISP code is embedded in the hard drive and experts will do the job.
They will be able to track the fact that Internet providers are involved in the process.
Then, once they get the information, they call it. (
Start Video Editing)B.
Sur: she has no plans for the weekend.
She\'s fine, you know.
This is our normal conversation.
When we hang up, I say talk to you tonight or tomorrow. (END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We\'re talking about 20-year-old Clemson co-
Found Dead in Tiffany sur, her apartment.
Alan rippuka, where would you lead the police in this case?
I was worried--
This is just a 10-
You know a lot of police are going to be defeated by the police.
It is very difficult to deal with the killing scene, if necessary.
Alan Ripka, defense lawyer: of course, Nancy.
I think I will move in the direction we know.
We know she was killed around 1: 30 in the morning.
We know that there is no forced entry, so we know that she will let someone in unless someone makes a fool of her.
I think you have to work backwards from there, they seem to be doing the right thing, calling, email
Mail, chat with friends, etc.
Hey Alan, how did you attack the time of death in the murder you defended?
Obviously Nancy, you know, in science, we discussed with my experts, you know, what state is the body, how long can you tell it that there is no air, what is left in the lungs, whether there is liquid, etc.
Well, if we knew what she was eating for the last time, we could be sure a lot.
You can take a look at the body and see how far the digestive tract has gone.
Oh, tonight at the studio, a very, very special guest, Elizabeth Grace.
Mom, what did this mom go through? when I was in college, we talked every day.
Elizabeth Grace, Nancy Grace\'s mother: Yes, yes.
GRACE: so it would be very strange if she probably didn\'t call mom on Sunday morning.
It\'s Friday or Saturday, Eric. . .
MARRAPODI: The last time she got off the bus was on Thursday and found her on Friday morning.
Grace: So in those days, mom might be thinking about what\'s going on.
Soon, everybody, tonight, let\'s stop and remember three.
Respected journalist, two people were killed and one injured in Iraq yesterday.
The three brave men who went there so that we could know the truth.
Our thoughts and prayers for friends and loved ones of CBS News photographer 48year-
42-old Paul Douglasyear-
Old James brrowland
Two people were killed in an explosion in Baghdad.
Tonight, we are in critical condition with CBS reporter Kimberly dozel at the Air Force base in Ramstein, Germany, with multiple injuries to the head and legs.
Douglas, Roland, dorzel, American Hero
Thank you to all our guests tonight.
We thank you very much for being with us.
I\'m Nancy grace tonight.
See you here at 8: 00 tomorrow evening.
Good night, friends.